FreeSpace Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Upgrading campaigns

2009-04-28T01:43:15Z

Blue Lion:

==Title==

Titles don't usually take full capitalization (at least on the Wiki) unless they are names. - [[User:Snail|Snail]] 11:41, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
*Indeed. That makes articles easier to link to when their titles are embedded into a sentence. We don't have a guideline for this here at the FSWiki, though most wikis that I know of use the "Don't capitalize everything" principle. - [[User:TopAce|TopAce]] 12:17, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
**Well if you have to remove the capitalization do it in '''all''' articles, like [[Stealthing Ships To Force Target Loss]]. --- [[User:Mobius|Mobius]]
***We'll have to create a bot to do this eventually I think. Though how exactly it's going to discern between names and titles is beyond me. - [[User:Snail|Snail]] 12:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
****Or we may leave capitalized names as they are. As far as I'm concerned they're not a big problems...''contents'' are more important. Diverting the contributors' attention to "decapitalization" may be a waste of time. --- [[User:Mobius|Mobius]]
*****Linking them is more difficult, because you've got to always use the <nowiki>[[article name|how it appears in your sentence]]. Compare: "Some people are concerned about [[upgrading campaigns]]"; "Some people are concerned about [[Upgrading Campaigns|upgrading campaigns]]".</nowiki> - [[User:TopAce|TopAce]] 13:53, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
******I've already noticed that, but unless someone is really willing to do that on all articles, well...discussing is a waste of time. --- [[User:Mobius|Mobius]]

==Grammar checking==
Would it be better to rename it "Proofreading" to include things like inconsistent use of lingo and differing (often jarring) writing styles between missions?
*Let's don't rush with major divisions until we have clarified them first. I'm trying to add to the article whatever comes to me in my upgrading experience, so it'll take a while to be done. Also, I think additions to the article should be made by [[FreeSpace Campaign Restoration|FSCRP]] team members, only - I'm using this article to provide the team with the basic info so anything that might contradict our choices could cause confusions. Interesting additions should be discussed here on the Talk Page. --- [[User:Mobius|Mobius]]
**If you want only FSCRP members to edit this page, don't even submit it. It's not the FSCRP's Wiki. - [[User:TopAce|TopAce]] 17:37, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
***I know it may sound selfish, but what's wrong in discussing major changes in the Talk Page? --- [[User:Mobius|Mobius]]
****Changing the name of a section isn't that major a change. Adding new sections is, but I don't think that requires to be discussed unless its contents is ambiguous or debatable. - [[User:TopAce|TopAce]] 19:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
*****Changing the name of an empty section is not a big deal, isn't it? Well, in any case, I'm discussing this issue with the rest of the FSCRP team. We'll let you know. --- [[User:Mobius|Mobius]]
******I don't see anything on this page that says FSCRP members only. If you want to give them your own rules on how to upgrade a campaign go ahead. Changes would be on topic and relevant. I don't see what reasons you would have for changing them.

Talk:Upgrading campaigns

2009-04-26T16:17:11Z

Blue Lion:

Upgrading campaigns

2009-04-26T16:07:52Z

Blue Lion: /* Unappropriate names */ Typo

{{grammar}}

'''Upgrading a campaign''' means editing someone else's work. This means that the changes a FREDder can make are somewhat restricted, but could still improve gameplay in a radical way.

Unless the original campaign creator is available to assist, radical changes are to be kept to a bare minimum.

==Guidelines==
===Generic===
====Working as a team====
Without considering a few exceptions, upgrading a campaign is the result of the work of many members who decide to use their free time in a useful way. For this reason, it'd be polite to keep a reasonable behavior and respect the other members of the upgrade team.

No one is to be ashamed for mistakes, so flaming is all but out of context.

====Contacts====
Effective contacts are a vital parameter in upgrades. Although instant messaging programs, personal messages, e-mails and any other form of communication are reliable and effective, using private forums is surely the best option.

As evidenced [http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,62475.0.html here,] coordinating work of notable complexity requires a private forum which can be easily used to post questions, proposals, reports, etc. etc.

One of the main disadvantages in using anything other than private forums is the fact that posts will not be available for everyone to read. Members whose addresses/nicknames aren't included as additional recipients in e-mails/personal messages wouldn't have any notifications. Also, members joining the upgrade team later wouldn't have any chances of getting acquainted with the progress made so far.

===Upgraders===
:'''''See also:''''' [[Mission pre-release checklist|'''Mission pre-release checklist''']]

====Finding the problems====
Although most of the bug-hunting job is up to testers, FREDders are also encouraged to playtest campaigns in need of upgrades at least once.

There are several benefits: first of all, it's very important to get acquainted with the original campaign creator's FREDding style so that the upcoming changes can fit with the previous work. It's also extremely important when trying to supplement a tester's work and propose significant changes - testers with poor or nonexistent FREDding experience are focused on mission bugs and balancing while a FREDder may also analyze the campaign and decide wheter or not cutscenes and/or other special effects should be added.

====Proper naming conventions====
Naming conventions are of the utmost importance. There's nothing worse than making hard-to-guess edits with vague info. New events, for example, need to have comprehensive and exhaustive names. It's also important to track the FREDder who made the changes should problems arise.

Example:

*MBS - Destroy Transports Directive

In this example, the event has been created by [[User:Mobius|Mobius]] and it's intended to show up a specific directive: "Destroy Transports".

====Change logs====
Change logs are necessary to track edits and undo them should problems arise. Each upgrader working on a project is supposed to attach a .txt file with the changes he made. The document needs to be exhaustive.

It's also recommended to post the contents of the change logs in the forums. Do not attach the .txt to a post, since attachments are deleted at regular intervals.

===Testers===
:'''''See also:''''' [[Testing|'''Testing''']]

====Compiling initial reports====
Initial reports mark the beginning of an upgrade. During this phase, in facts, the most noticeable bugs and problems are found and discussed with the rest of the upgrade team.

Problems are various and aren't all supposed to be FREDding-related; certain campaigns are, in fact, old enough to give problems with recent builds of [[FreeSpace Open]] (or worse, with FreeSpace Open in general) so immediate edits are needed to test the campaign in a proper way.

The basic formula to create a report is the following:

:<Mission Name>

::Command Briefing:
:::<Stage N>
::::Text

::Briefing:
:::<Stage N>
::::Text
::::Icon placement
::::Usage formula (eventually)

::Mission:
:::<Arrival of ship X>
:::<Message X>
:::<Time-elapsed particular event>
:::Other

::Debriefing:
:::<Stage N>
::::Usage formula
::::Text

As it can be easily noticed, Mission-related problems are harder to point out. This happens mainly because of the fact that a problem can occur because of a certain event becoming [[true]] or [[false]] anytime (or, at least, in a wide time window) during the mission. Even "easily understandable" events like the ones connected to the destruction or the arrival of a ship may result in problems if the conditionals are complex.

When compiling a report, it's worth reminding that a) it should be comprehensive for FREDders and b) it should respect the "One line per problem" rule, meaning that all reported bugs/problems shouldn't be mixed in the text file.

'''This:''' 
- Ship Y departs too soon, one of its messages is sent by Command instead; 
- Bomber wing Z, tasked to destroy Ship Y, remains immobile if the ship departs and the bombers are unsuccessful at destroying it;

'''Is much more appropriate than this:''' 
- Ship Y departs too soon and bomber wing Z remain immobile instead of engaging the player and/or other friendly ships. One of the messages Ship Y is supposed to send is sent by Command instead;

====Playthroughs====
To be filled in later.

====Compiling further reports====
To be filled in later.

====Sanity check====
Sanity check is the last phase of the upgrade. It consists in one or more playthroughs whose objective is testing additional changes and making sure that the campaign is in very good conditions. Sanity checks shouldn't be underestimated simply because most of the job is already done - that's why there should be a coherent approach during this phase.

==Basic edits==
===Grammar-checking===
To be filled in later.

===Hostile wings management===
Although waved wings are rare in main campaigns, their use in custom campaigns is notable. For several reasons, an upgrader may have to change the number of waves and/or the delay between waves according to the reports compiled by testers:

'''Number of waves:''' 
''Editors'' ---> ''Wings'' ---> Edit the value placed near ''# of Waves''.

'''Delay between waves:''' 
''Editors'' ---> ''Wings'' ---> ''Arrival'' ---> ''Delay between waves'' ---> Edit the ''Min'' and/or ''Max'' value.

===Number of stars===
Older campaigns were tested using FRED Retail. Back then, no starfield skyboxes were available, (the SCP added them) so the only ways to improve a background were to add nebulae and set the number of stars to the max value, 2,000.

Many fans complain about the presence of those stars because their usage results in certain render oddities, like the "distortion effect". A recent change to the code has made sure that the skybox overwrites auto-generated stars, but it's always a safer to the number of stars to 0:

''Editors'' ---> ''Background'' ---> ''Misc'' ---> ''Number of stars'' ---> Set the value to ''0''.

===Order-related issues - ships===
Among the FREDding mistakes that can really screw up a mission, order-related ones deserve a relevant position. In many campaigns, in fact, it's possible to issue orders to transports, freighters, cruisers, and corvettes which are supposed to fly through waypoints and/or to follow certain orders. Ordering, by mistake or intentionally, to attack a ship and/or to capture a given target can lead to unpredictable results, like freezing the progress of a mission.

Unless it is clearly specified that the player is supposed to issue orders to such ships, it's very important to make sure that those ships will do only what they're supposed to:

''Editors'' ---> ''Ships'' ---> ''Player Orders'' ---> Unmark all orders that the player can issue. The white squares need to be empty.

===Order-related issues for spacecraft===
Even spacecraft can cause trouble because of their initial orders. It is possible to generalize on this subject and claim that the player, even in the role of squadron leader, should not be capable of issuing orders to all spacecraft. There might be fighters and/or bombers he has no authority on as well as units which are supposed to behave according to the original campaign creator's will without any interference (kamikaze runs, waypoints, suicide attacks, ignore certain allied ships, etc). It's also possible that certain spacecraft may need to receive orders by the player, but that should be an extremely rare occurrence.

It's also worth noting that in missions featuring characters, it shouldn't be possible to order those characters to depart anytime during the mission. If the player orders them to depart, all messages they were supposed to send will be sent by Command, instead.

Choosing the orders the player can issue is very easy:

Use the mouse or the ''Select List'' button on the interface (or, alternatively, press ''H'') ---> Choose the spacecraft whose player orders need to be changed ---> ''OK'' (if using ''Select List'', otherwise jump this step) ---> ''Player Orders'' ---> Mark/unmark the orders. Pay a lot of attention to characters.

===Skybox models===
Skyboxes are among the best graphical enhancements introduced by the [[FreeSpace Upgrade Project]]. Needless to say, as fan-made effects, skyboxes are totally missing from old campaigns.

Adding them is a must during the upgrade—they're the easiest and most effective way to show a good background even without any nebula. The standard skybox model released with the [[Media VP|Media VPs]] is called "starfield". Adding it is easy:

''Editors'' ---> ''Background'' ---> ''Misc'' ---> ''Skybox Model'' ---> Type ''"starfield.pof"'' without the quotes. There's no need to browse the model.

===Timings===
To be filled in later.

===Inappropriate names===
To be filled in later.

===Weird warship battles===
Often, FREDders order ships to engage each other in a fight by simply ordering them to attack each other. This is known to cause oddities, mostly under an eyecandy point of view—ships engaged in some sort of "dance" and/or involved in multiple collisions aren't worth watching. Obviously, this edit isn't necessary if all warships involved in the battle are supposed to remain immobile.

The best idea is to create waypoints the warships will then be supposed to fly through. If the warships are too fast and/or their starting distance is too short, it may be a good idea to reduce their speed. All of this can be easily done:

'''Removing orders:''' 
''Normal orders:'' 
''Editors'' ---> ''Ships'' ---> ''Initial Orders'' ---> Remove the order to attack the opposing ship.

''SEXP-triggered orders:'' 
''Editors'' ---> ''Events'' ---> Find the event ---> Remove the [[add-goal]] SEXP. It may be a good idea to delete the whole event as long as it's not in the middle of a chain and/or there are other SEXPs other than [[add-goal]].

'''Waypoints:''' 
''Creating waypoint paths:'' 
''Interface Shiplist'' ---> Choose ''Waypoint'' ---> Press ''Ctrl'' + ''Left bt. on mouse'' to add ---> Create, if necessary, a waypoint path ---> Name the waypoint path ---> Repeat this process for the other ships.

'''New orders:''' 
''Normal orders:'' 
''Editors'' ---> ''Ships'' ---> ''Initial Orders'' ---> Fly the selected waypoint.

''SEXP-triggered orders:'' 
''Editors'' ---> ''Events'' ---> Find the event ---> Use the [[add-goal]] SEXP to order ships to follow their specified waypoints.

'''Speed:''' 
''Editors'' ---> ''Events'' ---> Find the warship's arrival event ---> Add the [[cap-waypoint-speed]] SEXP to set a reduced speed. It can be reset by choosing a speed of "''-1''". This may be necessary if a ship involved in a battle is successively supposed to fly through waypoints at max speed or, at least, at a speed different from the one showed during the battle.

If there are no events related to the warship's arrival and/or to the beginning of the battle, it's a good move to create at least one for better handling.

==Related Links==
*[[FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project]] 

*[http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/board,146.0.html FSCRP Public Board | Hard Light Productions.net]

[[Category: FRED Tips]]
[[Category: Articles that need proofreading]]

Talk:Reciprocity

2009-04-19T10:54:30Z

Blue Lion:

==Mods and such==
I think Reciprocity should at the very least have a page dedicated to it's ships and species and such that have been used for other works. It might help to have them all in one place for easy view. I also have some information on the old campaign itself. -- [[User:BlueLion|BlueLion]] 07:21, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
:Then add that information. We'll help in formatting and such. Also please sign your talk page edits with: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> - [[User:TopAce|TopAce]] 16:58, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
::Is it really super important who said it? -- [[User:BlueLion|BlueLion]] 04:52, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Yes. -- [[User:BlueFlames|BlueFlames]] 05:00, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
::::So, err what about the initial idea? - [[User:Snail|Snail]] 11:17, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
The page is a stub, albeit not marked as such. Add whatever information you find relevant. I'd put something up myself, but I don't know a thing about the campaign. -- [[User:BlueFlames|BlueFlames]] 15:05, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
:I have added a very, very, very '''''very''''' incomplete list of ships from Reciprocity. If someone with more knowledge could expand it, that would be greate. - [[User:Snail|Snail]] 09:34, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
::Added in the Nightmare race, currently looking for more ships.

Talk:Reciprocity

2009-04-19T10:54:22Z

Blue Lion:

==Mods and such==
I think Reciprocity should at the very least have a page dedicated to it's ships and species and such that have been used for other works. It might help to have them all in one place for easy view. I also have some information on the old campaign itself. -- [[User:BlueLion|BlueLion]] 07:21, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
:Then add that information. We'll help in formatting and such. Also please sign your talk page edits with: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> - [[User:TopAce|TopAce]] 16:58, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
::Is it really super important who said it? -- [[User:BlueLion|BlueLion]] 04:52, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Yes. -- [[User:BlueFlames|BlueFlames]] 05:00, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
::::So, err what about the initial idea? - [[User:Snail|Snail]] 11:17, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
The page is a stub, albeit not marked as such. Add whatever information you find relevant. I'd put something up myself, but I don't know a thing about the campaign. -- [[User:BlueFlames|BlueFlames]] 15:05, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
:I have added a very, very, very '''''very''''' incomplete list of ships from Reciprocity. If someone with more knowledge could expand it, that would be greate. - [[User:Snail|Snail]] 09:34, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
:Added in the Nightmare race, currently looking for more ships.

Reciprocity

2009-04-19T10:53:44Z

Blue Lion:

This page is a placeholder for information regarding the canceled campaign "Reciprocity". Please do not remove.

====List of Races from Reciprocity====

* [[Nightmares]]

====List of Ships from Reciprocity====

* [[GTB Gagana]]
* [[EAB Peregrine|GTB Peregrine]]
* [[NF Unknown]]
* [[NB Unknown]]
* [[NCv Unknown]]
* [[ND Unknown]]

{{stub}}

[[Category:User-made Campaigns]]

Talk:Reciprocity

2009-04-18T04:52:09Z

Blue Lion:

==Mods and such==
* I think Reciprocity should at the very least have a page dedicated to it's ships and species and such that have been used for other works. It might help to have them all in one place for easy view. I also have some information on the old campaign itself.
**Then add that information. We'll help in formatting and such. Also please sign your talk page edits with: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> - [[User:TopAce|TopAce]] 16:58, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
*** Is it really super important who said it?

Talk:Reciprocity

2009-04-17T07:21:24Z

Blue Lion: New page: ==Mods and such== * I think Reciprocity should at the very least have a page dedicated to it's ships and species and such that have been used for other works. It might help to have them al...

Reciprocity

2009-04-16T03:05:50Z

Blue Lion: Starting off

This page is a placeholder for information regarding the canceled campaign "Reciprocity". Please do not remove.

User talk:Hippo

2009-04-13T11:30:38Z

Blue Lion: typo

Hippo would like to make it public record that he disproves of colored text use on HLP, and he also disproves of Mobius' tendencies to get worked up over molehills.

Talk:NTF Iceni

2009-04-13T02:50:20Z

Blue Lion:

Should the text above the TOC be moved into the description?
-oohal

No, it is an intro. Or rather it is supposed to be the intro. - [[User:Wanderer|Wanderer]] 11:50, 24 Dec 2005 (GMT)

my mistake -oohal

==Non-Canon Block==

*Does the non-canon text near the start of the article really fit? My inclination is to remove it, since most/all of the other ship pages seem devoted to canon information and veteran comments. I'll pull it early this week, if there's no objection. -- [[User:BlueFlames|BlueFlames]] 12:05, 16 March 2008 (CST)
**Personally, I think that information is useful to some extent for FREDders and mission designers. It is also quite interesting regarding the section where it talks about the Blueprint. However, I could agree with you that it is not a the best place to put such information. So heres what I recommend: Keep the information, but place it somwhere else. [[User:Nubbles|Nubbles]] 07:14, 17 March 2008 (CST)

==Manufacturer: Freedom Shipyards?==
Should the Freedom Shipyards count as manufacturer of the NTF Iceni? --- [[User:Mobius|Mobius]]
*It IS listed as the builder in the ship's description. [[User:Ngtm1r|Ngtm1r]] 14:15, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
**I know, but that doesn't count as manufacturer. Manufacturers are RNI, Sahr, Akhethon Corp, and so on. The Aeolus has been built at the RNI shipyards orbiting Laramis II, but the manufacturer is RNI, not "RNI shipyards". Also, we don't know of a contractor called "Freedom" in the FS universe...how do we deal with that? I suggest to write "Neo-Terran Front". --- [[User:Mobius|Mobius]]
***That's because we know there's a company called "RNI". For all we know "Freedom Shipyards" could be the name of the company. What discounts it as an manufacturer? It's stated in the tech description, and it says more than just "Neo-Terran Front", which might not even be the correct manufacturer, as it may have been designed by the GTVA. --- [[User:Droid803|Droid803]]
****I see... well, Freedom shipyards sounds more the name of a specific location. Bosch might have renamed a GTVA shipyard or something...because your point is good, what about writing something like "Freedom shipyards (location)"? --- [[User:Mobius|Mobius]]
*****I don't think that's really necessary personally. I think it works fine now. - [[User:Snail|Snail]] 01:35, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
******Unless there is info that says Freedom Shipyards is a place for another manufacturer, there is no reason to assume it isn't correct - [[User:Blue Lion|Blue Lion]]

Talk:Post-Great War contacts with Sol

2009-04-04T00:56:56Z

Blue Lion:

==Canon Info==

Where is this information about communications coming from? Shouldn't this all be considered speculation? --- Blue Lion
*That's an analysis of the possible ways to communicate with Sol, successful or not. I fail to understand how you can interpret it as the description of communications to/from Sol. Read the article - I mentioned plotholes, FreeSpace 3 and Alpha Centauri, just to give an example. --- [[User:Mobius|Mobius]]

For example a line like this - "Subspace communications are a standard among the GTVA and they might have been used by the GTA at the time of the Great War. Subspace communications are usually supposed to be the fastest and most effective ones." "Might have been" and "Supposed to be" sound like opinions.

I don't mind the talk about it but the non-canon at the bottom kinda throws me off. Does that mean the stuff up top IS canon? To me it just seems poorly worded and confusing to people who might not know as much about it and think that these things are actual facts about the FS universe.

Talk:Post-Great War contacts with Sol

2009-04-03T21:16:51Z

Blue Lion: New page: ==Canon Info== Where is this information about communications coming from? Shouldn't this all be considered speculation?

==Canon Info==

Where is this information about communications coming from? Shouldn't this all be considered speculation?

Alcibiades' Gamble

2009-02-27T16:36:28Z

Blue Lion:

==Overview==

Status: In Progress

Mods: None

==Staff==

Blue Lion 
TinFoil 
FreeSpaceFreak 
McMad 
Droid803 
Rodo 
rbxplayer 

==Description==

As a pilot stationed in Sirius, you struggle to survive as the new NTF rebellion takes over Sirius. You battle pilots and ships that were your wingmates a mere days before. With the help from Alpha Centauri and Deneb you fight to rid Sirius of traitors, but the odds are not in your favor.

[[Category: User-made Campaigns]]

Alcibiades' Gamble

2009-02-23T06:51:52Z

Blue Lion:

==Overview==

Status: In Progress

Mods: None

==Staff==

Blue Lion 
TinFoil 
FreeSpaceFreak 
McMad 
Droid803 
Rodo 

==Description==

As a pilot stationed in Sirius, you struggle to survive as the new NTF rebellion takes over Sirius. You battle pilots and ships that were your wingmates a mere days before. With the help from Alpha Centauri and Deneb you fight to rid Sirius of traitors, but the odds are not in your favor.

[[Category: User-made Campaigns]]

Alcibiades' Gamble

2009-02-23T06:51:11Z

Blue Lion:

==Overview==

Status: In Progress

Mods: None

==Staff==

Blue Lion
TinFoil
FreeSpaceFreak
McMad
Droid803
Rodo

==Description==

As a pilot stationed in Sirius, you struggle to survive as the new NTF rebellion takes over Sirius. You battle pilots and ships that were your wingmates a mere days before. With the help from Alpha Centauri and Deneb you fight to rid Sirius of traitors, but the odds are not in your favor.

[[Category: User-made Campaigns]]

Alcibiades' Gamble

2009-02-23T06:43:37Z

Blue Lion:

==Overview==
Project Head: Blue Lion

Status: In Progress

Mods: None

==Description==

As a pilot stationed in Sirius, you struggle to survive as the new NTF rebellion takes over Sirius. You battle pilots and ships that were your wingmates a mere days before. With the help from Alpha Centauri and Deneb you fight to rid Sirius of traitors, but the odds are not in your favor.

[[Category: User-made Campaigns]]

Alcibiades gamble

2009-02-23T06:36:18Z

Blue Lion: Removing all content from page

Alcibiades' Gamble

2009-02-23T04:23:57Z

Blue Lion:

Placeholder for now

Alcibiades gamble

2009-02-23T04:10:18Z

Blue Lion: Alcibiades gamble moved to Alcibiades' Gamble

#REDIRECT [[Alcibiades' Gamble]]

Alcibiades' Gamble

2009-02-23T04:10:18Z

Blue Lion: Alcibiades gamble moved to Alcibiades' Gamble

Alcibiades' Gamble

2009-02-23T04:10:00Z

Blue Lion: Removing all content from page

Alcibiades' Gamble

2009-02-23T04:09:30Z

Blue Lion: New page: Starting page for Alcibiades Gamble. New work to be added soon.

Starting page for Alcibiades Gamble. New work to be added soon.