Talk:Character-driven campaigns - Revision history

Snail: moved Talk:Character-Driven Campaigns to Talk:Character-driven campaigns: cAPitALizaTiOn cONVenTiOn

2011-05-26T10:45:46Z

moved Talk:Character-Driven Campaigns to Talk:Character-driven campaigns: cAPitALizaTiOn cONVenTiOn

← Older revision	Revision as of 10:45, 26 May 2011
(No difference)

Mobius: Reply

2009-06-11T16:14:18Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:14, 11 June 2009
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	*****I tried to remove a few more of the POVed statements and replace them with something more neutral. Let me know if it seems a bit better. Hopefully Mobius can read the changes over and understand why the original article he posted wasn't acceptable. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		*****I tried to remove a few more of the POVed statements and replace them with something more neutral. Let me know if it seems a bit better. Hopefully Mobius can read the changes over and understand why the original article he posted wasn't acceptable. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	******Looks better. Good job. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		******Looks better. Good job. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
			*******I'll try to reply to all comments on this page. '''Classic campaigns can also be CDCs and/or share many of the typical characteristics of CDCs.'''. I don't agree with TopAce when he says that a campaign based on military experience could also be an effective CDC. In a military experience, like [[PI]], there are certain factors like the interaction with Command, a different development in terms of characters (who can hardly be found), the nearly total lack of multi-phased missions like [[Journey of a Thousand Miles]], the outcome of the campaigns (military experience =/= character-driven story). Don't confuse mysteries the player is informed about with mysteries that directly depend on the player's actions. '''The number of CDCs is expected to grow. Why?'''. Well, it's not that hard to deduce that the success of Transcend, Sync and Age of Aquarius (I'd also mention [[Windmills]], to some extent) has strongly influenced the community. Please keep in mind that [[War in Heaven]] is also nearing completion, so the role of CDCs in the FreeSpace community would grow even more. I've seen several members adding typical CDC elements to their campaigns, so the number of CDCs is very likely to grow. '''Deleting this article may be a good idea.''' As I said above, we'll probably be seeing more CDCs in the foreseeable future so a Wiki article describing the phenomenon and its most relevant characteristics may be appropriate. As FREDder, I'd also like to emphasize the fact that CDCs ''are not'' conventional campaigns. I don't have to tell you guys how some community members reacted to AoA's plot choices without criticizing Darius' FREDding capabilities. For this reason (and many others), I'd like to put an emphasis to those differences and define two, different kinds of campaigns. --- [[User:Mobius]]

TopAce at 13:50, 9 June 2009

2009-06-09T13:50:03Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:50, 9 June 2009
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	****I'm not sure what to do, quite honestly. I would prefer to have this page deleted, but that would be another stab into Mobius's back. I would like to work on this article, but I'm not well-versed in user-made campaigns and how they are done. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		****I'm not sure what to do, quite honestly. I would prefer to have this page deleted, but that would be another stab into Mobius's back. I would like to work on this article, but I'm not well-versed in user-made campaigns and how they are done. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	*****I tried to remove a few more of the POVed statements and replace them with something more neutral. Let me know if it seems a bit better. Hopefully Mobius can read the changes over and understand why the original article he posted wasn't acceptable. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		*****I tried to remove a few more of the POVed statements and replace them with something more neutral. Let me know if it seems a bit better. Hopefully Mobius can read the changes over and understand why the original article he posted wasn't acceptable. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
			******Looks better. Good job. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

General Battuta at 13:48, 9 June 2009

2009-06-09T13:48:57Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:48, 9 June 2009
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	***These are all fair points, TopAce. As you can see from the history, these are all left from Mobius' original article. You can either ask him, or we can just delete this thing. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		***These are all fair points, TopAce. As you can see from the history, these are all left from Mobius' original article. You can either ask him, or we can just delete this thing. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	****I'm not sure what to do, quite honestly. I would prefer to have this page deleted, but that would be another stab into Mobius's back. I would like to work on this article, but I'm not well-versed in user-made campaigns and how they are done. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		****I'm not sure what to do, quite honestly. I would prefer to have this page deleted, but that would be another stab into Mobius's back. I would like to work on this article, but I'm not well-versed in user-made campaigns and how they are done. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
			*****I tried to remove a few more of the POVed statements and replace them with something more neutral. Let me know if it seems a bit better. Hopefully Mobius can read the changes over and understand why the original article he posted wasn't acceptable. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

TopAce at 13:43, 9 June 2009

2009-06-09T13:43:02Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:43, 9 June 2009
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	**"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		**"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	***These are all fair points, TopAce. As you can see from the history, these are all left from Mobius' original article. You can either ask him, or we can just delete this thing. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		***These are all fair points, TopAce. As you can see from the history, these are all left from Mobius' original article. You can either ask him, or we can just delete this thing. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
			****I'm not sure what to do, quite honestly. I would prefer to have this page deleted, but that would be another stab into Mobius's back. I would like to work on this article, but I'm not well-versed in user-made campaigns and how they are done. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

General Battuta at 13:38, 9 June 2009

2009-06-09T13:38:00Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:38, 9 June 2009
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	**The article also says that because of BP and Transcend, the number of CDCs is expected to grow. Who says this and based on what info?		**The article also says that because of BP and Transcend, the number of CDCs is expected to grow. Who says this and based on what info?
	**"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		**"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
			***These are all fair points, TopAce. As you can see from the history, these are all left from Mobius' original article. You can either ask him, or we can just delete this thing. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

TopAce: one fix

2009-06-09T13:34:51Z

one fix

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:34, 9 June 2009
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	Overhauled Mobius' initial page to remove some POV statements and present a more neutral, factual article. I may simply suggest deletion here, because nobody actually uses this term, so it's a case of original research. This page is more of an attempt to create and propagate a term than to describe something already in use. That said, I personally like the page, and if folks want to keep it, it should stay. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 03:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		Overhauled Mobius' initial page to remove some POV statements and present a more neutral, factual article. I may simply suggest deletion here, because nobody actually uses this term, so it's a case of original research. This page is more of an attempt to create and propagate a term than to describe something already in use. That said, I personally like the page, and if folks want to keep it, it should stay. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 03:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	It's still POV, since it considers only Sync, Transcend, and Blue Planet. Also I have problems with the typical features section. I'm not sure that a good CDC must* involve a lot of intrasystem travel, for instance. This article was clearly written with these three campaigns in mind. Give me some time for another read-through, and I'll say more. <br> Here are my further comments:		It's still POV, since it considers only Sync, Transcend, and Blue Planet. Also I have problems with the typical features section. I'm not sure that a good CDC must* involve a lot of intrasystem travel, for instance. This article was clearly written with these three campaigns in mind. Give me some time for another read-through, and I'll say more. <br> Here are my further comments:
	**The article needs a better intro. The current one only says that the aforementioned three campaigns are character-driven ones.		**The article needs a better intro<s>. The current one only says that the aforementioned three campaigns are character-driven ones.</s>, one less centered around Sync, Transcend, and BP.
	**The Required skills section says that CDCs must have cutscenes. Why? Cutscenes aren't obligatory to tell a story well. Homesick and Derelict didn't have cutscenes yet people liked these campaigns' stories very well.		**The Required skills section says that CDCs must have cutscenes. Why? Cutscenes aren't obligatory to tell a story well. Homesick and Derelict didn't have cutscenes yet people liked these campaigns' stories very well.
	The assertion that CDCs require mods is plain bullsh. What's wrong with vanilla FreeSpace that prevents any FREDder from making a character-driven campaign?		The assertion that CDCs require mods is plain bullsh. What's wrong with vanilla FreeSpace that prevents any FREDder from making a character-driven campaign?
	**The article also says that because of BP and Transcend, the number of CDCs is expected to grow. Who says this and based on what info?		**The article also says that because of BP and Transcend, the number of CDCs is expected to grow. Who says this and based on what info?
	**"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		**"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

TopAce: formatting sophistication

2009-06-09T13:22:17Z

formatting sophistication

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:22, 9 June 2009
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	Overhauled Mobius' initial page to remove some POV statements and present a more neutral, factual article. I may simply suggest deletion here, because nobody actually uses this term, so it's a case of original research. This page is more of an attempt to create and propagate a term than to describe something already in use. That said, I personally like the page, and if folks want to keep it, it should stay. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 03:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		Overhauled Mobius' initial page to remove some POV statements and present a more neutral, factual article. I may simply suggest deletion here, because nobody actually uses this term, so it's a case of original research. This page is more of an attempt to create and propagate a term than to describe something already in use. That said, I personally like the page, and if folks want to keep it, it should stay. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 03:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	It's still POV, since it considers only Sync, Transcend, and Blue Planet. Also I have problems with the typical features section. I'm not sure that a good CDC must* involve a lot of intrasystem travel, for instance. This article was clearly written with these three campaigns in mind. Give me some time for another read-through, and I'll say more. <br> Here are my further comments:		It's still POV, since it considers only Sync, Transcend, and Blue Planet. Also I have problems with the typical features section. I'm not sure that a good CDC must* involve a lot of intrasystem travel, for instance. This article was clearly written with these three campaigns in mind. Give me some time for another read-through, and I'll say more. <br> Here are my further comments:
	*The article needs a better intro. The current one only says that the aforementioned three campaigns are character-driven ones.		**The article needs a better intro. The current one only says that the aforementioned three campaigns are character-driven ones.
	*The Required skills section says that CDCs must have cutscenes. Why? Cutscenes aren't obligatory to tell a story well. Homesick and Derelict didn't have cutscenes yet people liked these campaigns' stories very well.		**The Required skills section says that CDCs must have cutscenes. Why? Cutscenes aren't obligatory to tell a story well. Homesick and Derelict didn't have cutscenes yet people liked these campaigns' stories very well.
	The assertion that CDCs require mods is plain bullsh*. What's wrong with vanilla FreeSpace that prevents any FREDder from making a character-driven campaign?		The assertion that CDCs require mods is plain bullsh. What's wrong with vanilla FreeSpace that prevents any FREDder from making a character-driven campaign?
	*The article also says that because of BP and Transcend, the number of CDCs is expected to grow. Who says this and based on what info?		**The article also says that because of BP and Transcend, the number of CDCs is expected to grow. Who says this and based on what info?
	*"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		**"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

TopAce: my two additional cents

2009-06-09T13:21:14Z

my two additional cents

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:21, 9 June 2009
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	Overhauled Mobius' initial page to remove some POV statements and present a more neutral, factual article. I may simply suggest deletion here, because nobody actually uses this term, so it's a case of original research. This page is more of an attempt to create and propagate a term than to describe something already in use. That said, I personally like the page, and if folks want to keep it, it should stay. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 03:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		Overhauled Mobius' initial page to remove some POV statements and present a more neutral, factual article. I may simply suggest deletion here, because nobody actually uses this term, so it's a case of original research. This page is more of an attempt to create and propagate a term than to describe something already in use. That said, I personally like the page, and if folks want to keep it, it should stay. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 03:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	It's still POV, since it considers only Sync, Transcend, and Blue Planet. Also I have problems with the typical features section. I'm not sure that a good CDC must* involve a lot of intrasystem travel, for instance. This article was clearly written with these three campaigns in mind. Give me some time for another read-through, and I'll say more. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		It's still POV, since it considers only Sync, Transcend, and Blue Planet. Also I have problems with the typical features section. I'm not sure that a good CDC must* involve a lot of intrasystem travel, for instance. This article was clearly written with these three campaigns in mind. Give me some time for another read-through, and I'll say more. <br> Here are my further comments:
			*The article needs a better intro. The current one only says that the aforementioned three campaigns are character-driven ones.
			*The Required skills section says that CDCs must have cutscenes. Why? Cutscenes aren't obligatory to tell a story well. Homesick and Derelict didn't have cutscenes yet people liked these campaigns' stories very well.
			The assertion that CDCs require mods is plain bullsh*. What's wrong with vanilla FreeSpace that prevents any FREDder from making a character-driven campaign?
			*The article also says that because of BP and Transcend, the number of CDCs is expected to grow. Who says this and based on what info?
			*"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

TopAce at 13:06, 9 June 2009

2009-06-09T13:06:56Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:06, 9 June 2009
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	Overhauled Mobius' initial page to remove some POV statements and present a more neutral, factual article. I may simply suggest deletion here, because nobody actually uses this term, so it's a case of original research. This page is more of an attempt to create and propagate a term than to describe something already in use. That said, I personally like the page, and if folks want to keep it, it should stay. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 03:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		Overhauled Mobius' initial page to remove some POV statements and present a more neutral, factual article. I may simply suggest deletion here, because nobody actually uses this term, so it's a case of original research. This page is more of an attempt to create and propagate a term than to describe something already in use. That said, I personally like the page, and if folks want to keep it, it should stay. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 03:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
			It's still POV, since it considers only Sync, Transcend, and Blue Planet. Also I have problems with the typical features section. I'm not sure that a good CDC must* involve a lot of intrasystem travel, for instance. This article was clearly written with these three campaigns in mind. Give me some time for another read-through, and I'll say more. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:50, 9 June 2009
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	****I'm not sure what to do, quite honestly. I would prefer to have this page deleted, but that would be another stab into Mobius's back. I would like to work on this article, but I'm not well-versed in user-made campaigns and how they are done. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		****I'm not sure what to do, quite honestly. I would prefer to have this page deleted, but that would be another stab into Mobius's back. I would like to work on this article, but I'm not well-versed in user-made campaigns and how they are done. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	*****I tried to remove a few more of the POVed statements and replace them with something more neutral. Let me know if it seems a bit better. Hopefully Mobius can read the changes over and understand why the original article he posted wasn't acceptable. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		*****I tried to remove a few more of the POVed statements and replace them with something more neutral. Let me know if it seems a bit better. Hopefully Mobius can read the changes over and understand why the original article he posted wasn't acceptable. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
			******Looks better. Good job. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:48, 9 June 2009
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	***These are all fair points, TopAce. As you can see from the history, these are all left from Mobius' original article. You can either ask him, or we can just delete this thing. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		***These are all fair points, TopAce. As you can see from the history, these are all left from Mobius' original article. You can either ask him, or we can just delete this thing. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	****I'm not sure what to do, quite honestly. I would prefer to have this page deleted, but that would be another stab into Mobius's back. I would like to work on this article, but I'm not well-versed in user-made campaigns and how they are done. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		****I'm not sure what to do, quite honestly. I would prefer to have this page deleted, but that would be another stab into Mobius's back. I would like to work on this article, but I'm not well-versed in user-made campaigns and how they are done. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
			*****I tried to remove a few more of the POVed statements and replace them with something more neutral. Let me know if it seems a bit better. Hopefully Mobius can read the changes over and understand why the original article he posted wasn't acceptable. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:43, 9 June 2009
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	**"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		**"Character-driven campaigns are a good way to tell original stories and "escape" from classic military experiences in which the player has to do certain things with poor or nonexistent degrees of mystery and adventure." This paragraph is entirely biased. So campaigns that center around telling a war story (=giving military experience) are just not good for telling a story? Also on whose standards do these campaigns lack mystery and adventure? Both FS campaigns (in my view) were full of mystery. I asked myself: Who's this female voice and why is she telling me about a race extinghuished by the Shivans? What's this ETAK? What's up with this portal named Knossos? Also, the loop missions were adventurous, [[Playing Judas]] was an adventure. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
	***These are all fair points, TopAce. As you can see from the history, these are all left from Mobius' original article. You can either ask him, or we can just delete this thing. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)		***These are all fair points, TopAce. As you can see from the history, these are all left from Mobius' original article. You can either ask him, or we can just delete this thing. [[User:General Battuta\|General Battuta]] 13:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
			****I'm not sure what to do, quite honestly. I would prefer to have this page deleted, but that would be another stab into Mobius's back. I would like to work on this article, but I'm not well-versed in user-made campaigns and how they are done. - [[User:TopAce\|TopAce]] 13:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)